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Post by doberdawg on Aug 23, 2014 17:01:53 GMT -5
I have a new looking (supposedly 7K on it since rebuild 25 yrs ago) 260 from 64 1/2 Mustang. I pulled valve covers & noticed 2 things: not many obvious miles or gunk on rockers; and (1) 289 head & (1) 302 head. It appears to be 5 bolt. My confusion is: I always heard that the main reason nobody bothers building - or even re-building 260's is because 289/302 heads create a valve vs. piston problem in a 260 block. Engine is out of car with C4 still attached. Where & what numbers am i looking for to ascertain exactly which block it is. I will use it either way, but if 260 I will put it in a needy 63 Ranchero. If 289 I would rather put it in a needy 65 Comet station wagon. It was pulled for a fresh Stroker/T5 conversion.
The engine has an epoxy'd rebuild label dated 1/86 from a "Ford Authorized" remanufacturer. (Fred Jones) I am thinking 1 each 289 & 302 head is not a good thing??? Or were some so similar to make no difference? I hate pulling heads, but may. Also I am told that if I pull intake manifold the valley will be stamped 260 or 289 or 302??? Is there a way without pulling manifold? thanxxxx
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Post by w2zero on Aug 26, 2014 23:27:32 GMT -5
The bore size of the block is the problem with matching the heads. The larger bore of the 289/302 and larger valves result in the valves being shrouded by the cylinder walls. To allow for even larger valves and higher lifts, some early builders even relieved the cylinder walls to allow clearance and unshrouding the valves. For my own part, I would not hesitate for a moment to pull those heads. While they are probably the same, they could be different enough to cause problems. Key to this is the compression ratio so you need to check those combustion chambers to verify a match and to be sure you aren't giving up compression vs the 260 heads.
Just my way of doing stuff after getting burned for not pulling an engine down because it seemed to run okay.
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Post by doberdawg on Aug 27, 2014 14:55:40 GMT -5
If I pull the heads I have a matched pair to use but had plans for them. I am wondering if I compression test the engine & see even compression in all cylinders & especially on each bank (little or no compression difference between 289 & 302 heads if there would be reason for removal. AND ... my main question of being able to identify the size of the block!!! Your reply sounds as if there is a possibility that the 289 & 302 heads are the same. As the engine was built by [google him] Fred jones Oklahoma City; Ford's biggest authorized engine re builder he would {hope, hope] not use incompatable or conflicting heads?? Hmmmmm  ? Block size |
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Post by w2zero on Aug 27, 2014 19:40:41 GMT -5
Give these numbers a gander, may just what you need for the block identification.
CID Year Casting# Bore Deck Notations
221 62 C2OE-G C30E 3.50 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 6" between motor mount holes, 2 freeze plugs per side
221 63 C3OE-A 3.50 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 7" between motor mount holes, 3 freeze plugs per side
260 62 C3OE-B 3.80 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 6" between motor mount holes, 2 freeze plugs per side
260 62-65 C3OE-C C4OE-B C4OE-D C4OE-E 3.80 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 7" between motor mount holes, 3 freeze plugs per side
289 63-64 C3AE-N C4OE-C C4OE-F C4AE C4DE
4.00 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing
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Post by doberdawg on Aug 28, 2014 11:35:58 GMT -5
Those numbers look worth saving - BUT - where on the block are they? Also if I am reading your "between motor mount holes" correctly all 4 of my 260's are 12 inches between motor mount holes (engine removed measuring mounts on frame) and my 221 was 7 inches. T^he engine I am trying to "size" was removed (I removed) from a 64 1/2 Mustang. I was/am baffled because it is supposedly a 260, but has 1 each 289 & 302 head, I always thought either head would interfere with the pistons on a 260. And I just assumed that 289 & 302 heads would be different enough to NOT run 1 each?? But perhaps some very late 289 & very early 302 heads were nearly identical??? This is what I hoped to find answers to, that and how to identify the block without dis-assembly. As the engine looks new even with valve covers removed, & supposedly ran strong (I believe the gifter) ran great (he replaced with a BUILT stroker)I hate to disassemble it. My dilemma is which of 2 cars to put it in. The answer will be determined by size 260 - in 63 Ranchero, 289 in 65 Comet Wagon. So, & seriously thanks, can anybody tell me how to differentiate between an early 289 or a late 260? Their MUST be numbers? Where? I am told, & may have to, to remove the intake manifold & it will be clearly stamped in valley - - again unless necessary, I hate to dis assemble. thanxxxxxxxx |
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Post by w2zero on Aug 28, 2014 12:06:13 GMT -5
block numbers are above the starter. There shouldn't be any valve problems unless you change a cam and that ain't happening unless you pull the intake anyway. The distance between the motor mount bosses on the block is measured front to back. The change from 6" to 7" took place because of the additional casting/freeze plug per side. Yes a late 289 and early 302 are very likely same or so close it doesn't matter. In any case, a compression test would be a must with an unknown engine condition regardless what the former owner says.
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Post by doberdawg on Aug 29, 2014 11:52:05 GMT -5
I do intend to compression test it k- part of the reason I wondered about different heads - ?? different compression because different heads?? And it is together so I will also start it & listen for noises. The gifter did so because he lives in a "home owners association" that does not allow wrenching, or car part storage. We pulled it inside his small garage & he had no place to store (& no use for) it. I will look for block numbers above the starter, thanks.
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Post by w2zero on Aug 29, 2014 15:27:49 GMT -5
I understand the reasoning behind a lot of HOA rules but that doesn't mean I agree with them. Good luck with the engine.
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Post by doberdawg on Aug 30, 2014 13:42:46 GMT -5
What are "HOA" rules? How do they affect my situation?
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Post by w2zero on Aug 31, 2014 2:12:49 GMT -5
quoted from your previous post "Home Owners Association" HOA
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Post by doberdawg on Sept 1, 2014 10:27:19 GMT -5
When I bought my home I did not even LOOK at homes within a HOA.
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Post by falconer on Jul 7, 2019 13:49:09 GMT -5
I have a set of newly redone 260 heads of a 64 Falcon Futura with numbers 3m2 and 3m4 casted into the heads. I have a 1986 Ford F150 302 motor and the casting number is E6SE. Will the 260 heads work on the 302 with just a thicker gasket to reduce compression?
Casting number indicates the block was meant for a Thunderbird.
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? Block size